How OCCII keeps assembling Amsterdam's dissident voices

Before we get into the history of the space – how long have you personally been involved with OCCII?

Oh that goes way back. I come from a small town near the coast. We used to organize shows there in a youth center. Nearby, there is a town called Alkmaar that had a punk venue called Parkhof. I saw a punk band in the late 90s in a squat in Alkmaar and they were talking about a venue in Amsterdam that they were going to to record their first album. They asked me to join and help with the cables and all. So my first steps here in OCCII were in the early 2000s. I didn't really know the place at all. Back then, there was a huge squat in Amsterdam, near the zoo at the Entrepotdok, called Kalenderpanden. There was a really good mix of music and community. But they got evicted in October or November 2000. I saw that many people from that place moved over to OCCII, the place where I was just before to record this album. Some folks started a people's kitchen in the back and others were programming there.

There was a stable crew and all the events were hosted and run by volunteers. The sound engineer coordinator and one or two people worked directly for OCCII. Then, in late 2004, they got a letter from the government that said: we're gonna quit all the jobs and the whole refund system is dead. So six, seven people lost their jobs and had to find something else. The board–OCCII is a "stichting", a foundation–decided that we need one coordinator to keep the place going. They put me up front and I said yes. Since 2005 we've been running and hosting all the shows with volunteers. In 2009 we secured some funding from the art funds from Amsterdam. Before that we were fully self-supporting. Nowadays, I have a colleague to help with administration and all that stuff.

So, a small team and lots of fluctuation with the volunteers. That obviously is quite unstable in a way, but is it also somewhat positive because it brings new energy all the time?

It definitely does.

People come and go. Like, one of our sound engineers, he's on tour a lot. But if he's in Amsterdam, he fixes amps and he has his repair space behind OCCII, in our community workspace. He's been here for more than 20 years. Especially sounds techs come and go. But they're always available–if they're in town, we can call them. We also work with interns on different levels–for publicity, social media. But they get to coordinate one or two nights a months too, so they learn how it is to run a venue like this.

One thing I always found fascinating is Amsterdam's very specific squatting history, which has spawned many cultural hubs. Do you see OCCII in this tradition?

Hospitals and school buildings were left empty and got squatted immediately by huge groups of young people that wanted to start venues, kitchens, restaurants, or just a company. Amsterdam was known for that. Even the main venues like Melkweg and Paradiso have a background in squatting.  But they were already kind of run by professionals, especially in the 1980s and early 90s. 

I did not really know all the squats at that time in Amsterdam, but the people I spoke to, they always talked about two places: there was Van Hall in the Staatsliedenbuurt in the west, where all the punk and hardcore bands played in the 80s. Later it became a place called Emma. It had a recording studio run by musicians. That really spoke to me. Everything was very underground back then, it wasn't easy to find all the squats. But when I came to Kalenderpanden in the late 80s, 90s, that was a huge eye-opener for me.

Since 1992, OCCII has been legalized and that's because of the collective that ran both buildings, maintained it and used it collectively. They got a contract with the city for 30 years, but not to pay the rent, but to pay for the ground, which the city of Amsterdam still owns. We pay a fixed price and we have to take care of the buildings. We don't make any profit, but we also don't own the buildings, so we can not sell it and make money that way. It's just a cultural free space and there are, I think, still 20, 25, 30 places like this in Amsterdam. More so in the neighborhoods outside the center. 

If you look at the map of Amsterdam, it's like a pie divided in four or five pieces. Especially in the north, on the other side of Central Station, across the water, the IJ, the harbor and all the industrial areas are now taken over by cultural spaces. But I read this morning in Het Parool (Dutch newspaper) that most of those places will be gone by 2028. In two years time. We lose the Skate Cafe, Garage Noord, all these big places that are around. 

That's terrible. Especially because Noord became attractive because of these places. 

But when they got in there, they knew it would last for five years, and now it turned out to be 10. Yeah, who knows what happens in the next two years. It can also be easily extended another five years. But for now, the date is 2028 and everybody knew.  But of course, they went for it and it became a huge success. To be honest, I don't know what the future will bring. They'll probably have plans and find another way to survive or continue. 

As you describe it, Amsterdam is rapidly changing all the time. Now there's more expats than ever, everything feels constantly on the move. What would you say is the purpose of spaces like OCCII in this current moment? 

I'm not sure about our role in the district. We are on the south side of the Vondelpark. It used to be a working class area with a lot of social housing. But that has rapidly disappeared in the past 20 years. And now it's really known for the expats living here, because it's close to the Zuidas, the financial district. If you take the bus, it's 15 minutes to Schiphol Airport. So yeah, actually we have a lot of expats with young children coming to OCCII for our kids program. And at night, some new faces pop up. But our music is really popular with and known by young people. That's who we focus on. Our lineup is very international, just like our volunteer group and all of Amsterdam.

Is OCCII on TikTok?

No.

I do see similarities between Le Guess Who? and how OCCII aims to balance a fairly international staff and programme with keeping an eye out for the locals.

The group of people that live here in the community buildings are also very international. That's kind of how OCCII got started. The name is a reference to the venue's British origins. The squat movement in the 80s and 90s was really international and we had a lot of people from all over the place coming here and start using their networks. I think we have four or five Italian people helping behind the bar. Now it's easy to connect with bands in Italy and then find some more shows for them on the way in France or Switzerland and Germany. All of a sudden it's a tour! The same goes for Scandinavian or Polish acts. We have a lot of Romanian people too who we want to give a spot to as well. Not just focussing on British or American bands, but the underground scene from Europe and beyond.

Another similarity between OCCII and Le Guess Who? is that you work with different, changing individuals and collectives to build the program.

When I first came here in early 2000 there were like two or three shows a week, mainly organized by bands for other bands. They all slept at the organizer's house or in a squat in town. This was really how the DIY scene worked. But OCCII also had one or two regular nights hosted by other groups: one was Spellbound, a queer disco event, and the other one was King Shiloh, a dub reggae sound system. Every first Saturday of the month we had this dub night and every two months we had the queer disco. They had their own crew and we didn't have to pay the artists because they were paid by the entrance. All we did was collect the bar so we could pay our program and rent. At one point, King Shiloh became too big of a sound system for the room – it started to hurt our ears and bellies too much {laughs}. The whole neighborhood was shaking! They had a pyramid of sound on stage and at some point the stage became too small to build it up in front of the stage.

How long were King Shiloh regulars?

Until 2005, 2006, I think. After that, we were looking for a way to find more regular programming that was not just punk or bands, but also in the sound system or the dance music world. Then we met Seb (SebCat from Rebel Up), who lived in Utrecht at that time, and he was into the Rebel Up sound system.

We brought music from all four corners of the map together. Since then, most volunteers started to become groups with a name and a label, so that people can find them on socials. Although most of the nights are still run by individuals, it looks like there is a whole thing happening.

Lydia lunch or Thurston Moore come from New York to play with some locals here. That creates a really nice exchange.

It's nice because in a way it decentralizes all of OCCII's programming–it won't get stale that way.

It grows organically and that's nice thing about it.

For this year's Le Guess Who?, U?, and COSMOS, you are involved on numerous levels. Can you break down what you are going to do?

Oh we're having a meeting tomorrow in Utrecht, actually. At the moment it's still a lot of excel sheets going back and forth with three other groups: Antipode, ZALZALA and Girls to the Front. We're going to work together on a program for dB's—a space that serves as a music venue, a rehearsal space, and a recording studio all in one. We're printing a zine together, and bring over some bands… We'll keep it local. And, yeah, we were planning also to bring some distro and merch from OCCII. And then, of course, we're already planning the film we're making for COSMOS.

One final question: you already mentioned you have lots of volunteers. But I guess OCCII also kind of lives off of that open, invitational space. So if people read this and feel like they need to get involved – what's the best way to do that? Do they just knock on the door?

Yeah, we're always open during the events. The door opens at 8:00/8:30, then the bands start, and we're done by midnight. We're not open besides that, so people should come to the shows to talk to us.

They can also just send emails to OCCII. We can meet there and that's how it goes.